[Ofsrdc] Confusion about the Presidential Succession Proposal
RON & MARILYN SCHMIT
MARILYNRON at msn.com
Thu Sep 13 11:18:38 PDT 2007
I am not going to reply to all this. A committee was set up to deal with the situation, a report was given at the last meeting and the proposal was tabled until the November meeting. Questions have been asked and explanations have been given. So hopefully this will be settled soon.
Marilyn
----- Original Message -----
From: Kay & Jim Rogers<mailto:kayjim at opusnet.com>
To: Wolfsqrd at aol.com<mailto:Wolfsqrd at aol.com> ; ofsrdc-all at probo.com<mailto:ofsrdc-all at probo.com>
Cc: ofsrdc-all at squaredance.gen.or.us<mailto:ofsrdc-all at squaredance.gen.or.us>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:51 AM
Subject: RE: [Ofsrdc] Confusion about the Presidential Succession Proposal
Aren't you ignoring the fact that your "plot" was well developed and planned before you ever got to the meeting? We were aware of your animus the minute you threw the Randall Award at us at the Saturday Ceremonies. Tim did invite you to express your differences well in advance of the meeting and your little group chose to "commandeer" the meeting instead. I am shocked and saddened by your continued efforts to undermine the federation for your own unclear motives.
Jim would have sat in for the president in her absence and then assumed his position as incoming president in the fall, agreed. As it was, Marilyn sat in for Jim most of the year and is now the sitting president. The only person who would have stepped back under your plan was yourself to do an extra year as president. Why don't we all give it a rest and let things cool down?
Kay
-----Original Message-----
From: ofsrdc-all-bounces at squaredance.gen.or.us [mailto:ofsrdc-all-bounces at squaredance.gen.or.us] On Behalf Of Wolfsqrd at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:27 PM
To: ofsrdc-all at probo.com
Cc: ofsrdc-all at squaredance.gen.or.us
Subject: Re:[Ofsrdc] Confusion about the Presidential Succession Proposal
State Officers and Delegates
I do appreciate Tim summarizing the events that took place in January. Even though Tim gave you good facts he did ignore that Bob Bosch and Dennis Marsh did have several contacts with him in the first part of the month. The first e-mail started on Jan 6th (from Tim) with a questioning e-mail from Dennis on the 7th. and then With the response back from Tim we went and researched into more of our By-laws, P and P's and Robert's Rules of Order, which resulted in the "Point Of Order".
At no time did we ever disagree with Jim Rogers stepping up to President because that is the proper procedure, as pointed out in Tim's email. Where the problem developed was the stepping back to 1st Vice and then back up to president, for an additional 12 months. It is said that what happened at the meeting was exactly what Jim had planned; this was not exactly true, due to Jim's distributed "President's Report",he did plan to move up to President but he had already planned to have Dave Cooper take over as Past President and Jim was going to stay on as President in September.
Now what we all voted on was the denial of Jim being President for 21 months. It was never his moving to President.
All of these documents can be backed up and I would be happy to have copies of correspondence for the Delegates to look at during their meeting or before. If you do not have a Robert's Rules of Order 10th edition, I recommend you look at it.
Dennis Marsh, EEAC Delegate
-----Original Message-----
From: ofsrdc-all-bounces at squaredance.gen.or.us
[mailto:ofsrdc-all-bounces at squaredance.gen.or.us] On Behalf Of Tim
Roberts
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 8:54 PM
To: OFSRDC
Cc: Tim Roberts
Subject: [Ofsrdc] Confusion about the Presidential Succession Proposal
Neta Minten said at today's meeting that she was still confused about
what she was voting on at the beginning of the January meeting. I take
responsibility for that; it is part of my job to make sure everyone is
clear about the procedures being followed at any point in time. I can
only say that I was flustered by the way the meeting opened and wasn't
thinking things through. I will try to summarize in a few paragraphs
what happened and how we got there. The minutes of the meeting have a
relatively complete transcript of the goings-on at the meeting.
When Barbie Cooper died early in January, leaving the president's seat
vacant, Jim Rogers contacted me for an opinion on how we should move
forward. After going over our "holy documents" for a few days, I
presented my opinion on this mailing list, stating that Jim (as 1st VP)
would need to perform the duties of the President by appointing a
replacement, who would then serve the remainder of the year.
Mr Marsh and Mr Bosch disagreed with the details of that opinion.
Rather
than trying to work out a compromise in the weeks before the meeting,
they choose to present their own opinion immediately after the opening
of the January 28 meeting as a "point of order". Their assertion was
based on the premise that Barbie Cooper was not "absent" at that
meeting,
and therefore my opinion, based on our own by-laws, was not applicable.
A "point of order" is an assertion that some part of the meeting has
not proceeded according to the proper procedures. The chairman must
evaluate the point of order and decide whether there has, in fact,
been a violation. In the January meeting, Jim ruled that the point of
order did not have merit and denied it.
Mr Marsh then made a motion to overrule Jim's decision, an action
that is formally called an "appeal from the decision of the chair".
A parliamentary body has the right to challenge any decision made by the
chair, although it is rarely done in practice. THAT is the motion that
was debated at length and eventually voted on by secret ballot.
When the motion to overrule the chair passed, the procedure in that
point
of order was executed, resulting in the automatic promotion of Jim and
Marilyn, leaving the 2VP chair empty. Jim never had the opportunity to
present the plan we had agreed on. (Ironically, the resulting makeup of
the board was exactly identical to what it would have been, had Jim been
allowed to speak.)
However, a point of order cannot change by-laws or P&Ps. In January,
reasonable people read the same documents and came to differing
conclusions, and that situation could still happen again. In order to
fix that and remove any ambiguity, we formed a committee to study what
modifications might need to be made to the by-laws and/or P&Ps.
The document I presented today was the recommendation of that committee.
A question came up asking whether the proposed amendment was "read"
today,
for purposes of the amendment procedure in Article 8 of the By-Laws.
In my opinion, since the motion to accept the recommendation was
postponed
until November, we can't really say that the proposed amendment was
read, since it hasn't really been proposed yet. Thus, as I see it, if
the motion to accept the report is approved in November, we will not be
able to vote on adopting the changes it proposes until January.
Special committees dissolve when the president that formed them
goes out of office. Thus, if the motion to accept the recommendation is
voted down, Marilyn would need to form a new committee to continue that
work. Alternatively, she could decide to do nothing, and defer action
on this for some future year after things have settled down.
If you have questions on or disagreements with what I've said here,
please let me know.
--
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
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